The Roundtable Forum

Official Newsletter of the Battle of Midway Roundtable

 

17 January 2011

Issue Number:  2011-02

Our 14th Year

 

 

 

~ IN THIS ISSUE ~

 

1.  Member Survey: the BOM’s Most Memorable Scene

2.  What Did George Gay See?

3.  The Third Man in the TBD

4.  Editor’s Notes

 

 

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MEMBER SURVEY: THE BOM’S MOST MEMORABLE SCENE

 

( See issues 2010-38, 2011-01 )

           

            As mentioned in the last issue, the votes for the BOM’s most memorable scene came with a number of worthy comments from our members.  Here’s a sampling:

 

...Commander Joe Rochefort rushing to his meeting with Admiral Nimitz, carrying details of the Yamamoto intercept revealing June 4 as the target date.”  —Roundtable founder Bill Price, Virginia

 

            Memorable might not be the best description of it, but VT8’s empty ready room has to rate at the top.”  —Bob Bryson, Georgia

 

            “...the few moments after the last of the torpedo bombers were shot down, where all hope of stopping the Japanese juggernaught looked hopeless, and the SBDs appearing overhead and going into their dives, seconds before unleashing their bombs and turning defeat into victory.”  —Pete Shumbo, Connecticut

 

            “...the classic photo of the Hiryu, the front of her flight deck burned away, one of her elevators thrown up against the bridge.  Nothing I've ever seen from the BOM shows the savagery of the combat quite like that.  —Eric Carra, Illinois

 

            It may not be possible, nor even desirable, to distill an event of the magnitude and impact of the BOM into one scene.  This effect is magnified for those of us born well after the fact, who have no contemporary memory of it, but whose perceptions have been shaded by early accounts and legends in print and on film.  The Roundtable has been invaluable in helping sort legend from fact. Even so, the first scene that came to mind was that of a Dauntless pilot whose luck ran out.  Flak wounds him and damages his aircraft on the third sortie, on the second day of the battle, after the outcome had been decided.  The surviving bombers are sent out after a damaged cruiser, at most a secondary target.  Unable to pull his damaged SBD out of the dive, the pilot crashes fatally into the liquid wall at 240 knots.  The aircraft is bent and mangled, and floats for a brief instant before being swallowed by the sea.  It is among the scenes that has haunted me for some time, but it took a moment to recall its source—it was the death of Lt. Warren Henry, a fictional character from the television mini-series based on Herman Wouk’s novel War and Remembrance.”  —Scott Kair, Illinois

 

            “...Dick Best's dive on Akagi...First, the attack was in formation instead of single aircraft.  Second, the attack was off the port beam instead of down the deck.  Third, the attack was not the standard vertical dive, but some shallower angle.  This attack illustrates the fog of war and the ability of our pilots to improvise rather than blindly follow doctrine.”  —Scott Smith, Washington (state)

 

As the flames and smoke rise from the [Akagi], all those Japanese officers involved in the execution of the Pearl Harbor attack are seeing their dreams of victory and glory go up in smoke.  No more fitting scene could depict the shattering effect the attack on the carriers had on the Imperial Japanese Navy.”  —Don Boyer, Hawaii

 

“...McClusky's squadrons sighting and attacking the Japanese fleet...I leave it to better students of the battle to game out how it would have developed had McClusky not spotted the Japanese, but had come home empty-handed.  The histories lead me to the view that those Dauntless actions comprised a threshold event.   Before those actions, the battle might not have been won.  After them, it probably could not have been lost.”   —Bill Shields, Arizona

 

 

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WHAT DID GEORGE GAY SEE?

 

This has been one of the Roundtable’s favorite topics almost from Day One.  At issue is whether VT-8 survivor Ensign George Gay could have literally seen everything that he claimed during his 1943 Navy Department interview and in his 1979 book.  The subject was given thorough treatment in No Right to Win, pages 198-204, as well as in a subsequent extensive analysis authored by Jon Parshall and posted on our web site ( click here ).

 

While the matter seemed to be laid to rest at that point, it was still left with one or two arguable elements, and Roundtable member CDR David B. Gillis, MC, USNR-Retired has offered some interesting data that might merit further review of the subject.  Dr. Gillis, a practicing physician in Texas, brings a respectable background to the discussion, having served in three campaigns, from Vietnam to Gulf War II, as the flight surgeon for Marine helicopter squadrons.  He is also a licensed private pilot.

 

Previous analyses, cited above, as to whether George Gay could have actually seen multiple Japanese carriers burning and sinking were centered on his limited visibility while floating in or on the sea after being shot down.  During the daylight hours on June 4th, he remained in the water with his head not more than about one foot above the surface.  With the cover of darkness, he inflated his raft and got in, raising his visual elevation to perhaps three feet.  It’s those minimal elevations from the ocean’s surface that suggest Gay’s view to the horizon could have extended not more than a few miles, far short of what he’d need to see everything he claimed.

 

Dr. Gillis points out that such a conclusion requires the sea to be perfectly flat the entire time Gay is in water, not cresting and falling on swells that average six feet or more.  He also makes note of various reports of flames and smoke rising high in the sky above the burning carriers, as well as the smoke column above Midway’s bombed fuel tanks.  Thus, to be aware that the enemy ships were burning, Gay would only need to be able to see the rising smoke in daytime or the glow of flames at night, either of which would obviously rise far above his theoretical horizon.

 

In No Right to Win, the distances between the final positions of Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu were calculated as 12 to 39 nautical miles from each other.  Thus, if Gay had been perfectly positioned among them, his distance to the farthest of the three would have been something like 20 to 25 miles.  With the new considerations offered by Dr. Gillis, would that have enabled Gay to see all three ships on fire and eventually sink?

 

Dr. Gillis plotted a new visibility chart for Gay from the given information in No Right to Win plus his new postulations concerning ocean swells and the height of rising flame and smoke, and it is presented below.  His conclusion is that, at least during the momentary crests of swells, Gay’s view to both the horizon and especially to any fire and smoke rising high above it would have been well beyond what was previously credited to him and well beyond that necessary to at least glimpse telling evidence of all three burning carriers.

 

Your comments on Dr. Gillis’ theory and especially on his submitted data points will be welcome.

 

 

 

Line of Sight Calculator Results - Distances in Feet

 

 

David B. Gillis, 01 Dec 2010

 

 

 

 

http://www.calculatoredge.com/electronics/lineofsight.htm

 

Ensign Gay Eye Height, Ft.

Burning Carrier Flame/Smoke
Max Height, Ft.

Eye Horizon, Miles

Carrier Flame/Smoke Horizon, Miles

Total Line of Sight, Miles

State

1

1

1

1

2

p 201, No Right to Win,
Gay in Water

1

88

1

13

14

Carrier Height,
Gay in Water

1

100

1

14

15

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

1

200

1

20

21

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

1

300

1

24

25

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

1

400

1

28

29

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

1

500

1

32

33

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

1

1000

1

45

46

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Water

7

500

4

32

36

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay crests 6-foot swell

7

1000

4

45

49

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay crests 6-foot swell

3

1

2

1

3

p. 201, No Right To Win,
Gay in Life Raft

3

88

2

13

15

Carrier Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

100

2

14

16

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

200

2

20

22

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

300

2

24

26

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

400

2

28

30

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

500

2

32

34

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

3

1000

2

45

47

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay in Life Raft

9

500

4

32

36

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay crests 6-foot swell

9

1000

4

45

49

Flame/Smoke Height,
Gay crests 6-foot swell

 

 

 

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THE THIRD MAN IN THE TBD

 

Here’s a question that crops up frequently among our newer members.  Sharp-eyed readers of the various BOM histories, like new member CDR William Eldard (USN-Retired) in Virginia have noted that the TBD Devastator was a three-place aircraft, yet all accounts of the BOM mention only one aircrewman accompanying the pilot into battle.  What was the third seat for, and why was it empty at Midway?

 

The answer is that the TBD was designed as a multi-mission aircraft, capable of attacking with torpedoes, bombs, or depth charges.   The latter two were dropped by the aircraft’s bombardier, who was the “third” aircrewman aboard.  (Number two was the radioman-gunner).  Torpedoes were released by the pilot, making the bombardier unnecessary when the plane was torpedo-armed.  Thus the TBD squadrons at Midway launched into history with an empty seat in each aircraft, and the bombardiers who stayed behind had reason to be extremely thankful.

 

New members need feel no embarrassment at not figuring that out for themselves, since it even escaped some of the men then aboard the carriers at Midway.  One of stay-behind bombardiers was future Roundtable member and VT-8 vet Francis “FX” Cotton, who astounded his very worried brother, Hornet sailor Bernie Cotton by showing up alive in the squadron’s armory after the TBDs were long overdue.  “I could have shot him,” said Bernie upon relating the tale years later.  That may have been one of the more ironic quotes from a BOM vet ever recorded on the Roundtable.

 

 

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EDITOR’S NOTES

 

~  Regarding the USS Hornet deck log featured in the last issue: the original file was laid out in landscape format (on its left side), making it necessary to manually re-orient the image in order to read it.  Rich Leonard doctored the file for us so that it shows up in the proper format when first opened.  Click here to check it out, or use the link on our home page.  It’s a 6-page document, so you can use the blue up and down arrows (in Adobe Reader) to change the page.

 

~  Birthday greetings to another very senior BOM vet on our roster, VB-6 gunner Edward Anderson, who gets to blow out 94 candles on his cake later this month.  Many of you will remember Ed from the “Battle 360” television miniseries about USS Enterprise (CV-6).  He was featured as having been in the rear seat of Lou Hopkins’ SBD on the morning of 4 June 1942, and equally responsible as Lou for getting the plane safely back aboard the ship.

 

~  I want to acknowledge with thanks those many members who participated in our second “Most Memorable Scene” survey.  As I said in the last issue, it was interesting to see responses that were both consistent with as well as differing from those of the first survey in 2004.  But for what it might be worth, my personal favorite among them all remains that of Ted Kraver in Arizona, who offered this for the first survey:  My visualization of the Battle of Midway is five carriers, a cruiser, a destroyer, and over a hundred aircraft resting on the bottom of the Pacific 12,000 feet down: a littered battlefield, undisturbed by time or man.”  I don’t think it can be said any better than that.

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR COMMENTS ARE INVITED

 

Members are always welcome to submit comments or inquiries for publication in the Roundtable Forum.  Well-crafted essays or expanded articles on Midway-related subjects are especially invited, including book or media reviews, photos, documents, web links, etc.  For guidance with anything you might like to submit, please view our FAQs.