THE ROUNDTABLE FORUM
Official newsletter of the Battle of Midway
Roundtable
"To promote awareness and
understanding of the great battle and to honor the men who fought and won
it."
12 December 2004....................Issue
No. 2004-32....................Our 8th Year
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.............................................. AROUND THE TABLE
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MEMBERS' TOPICS IN THIS ISSUE
1. Finding the Japanese
Carriers
2. Pacific War History Forum
3. "Conspiracy: FDR
and Pearl Harbor"
4. Japanese Midget Subs at Pearl
Harbor
5. New Member: George Walsh
6. New Member: Ryan Hurley
7. New Member: AJ Trinidad
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"Finding
the Japanese Carriers"
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7 December 2004
From: Bill Price
wmhprice2@pressroom.com
Among all the
questions about Midway that remain unanswered are two concerning the leaders
who took their men into action. These questions concern how they located
the Japanese carriers after they had launched the Midway attack. The Kido
Butai changed course from that reported by Howard Ady, and headed
north-northwest for recovery of their aircraft. The land-based planes
attacked the carriers on the original course reported by Howard Ady.
However, after the
Japanese changed course, I don't believe there was any sighting and reporting
of this new course.
It is well documented how the Enterprise [dive
bombers] finally located the Japanese carriers. Using the
course and speed reported by Howard Ady, LCDR McClusky plotted an intercept
point for his air group. However, when he arrived there, no carriers were
in sight. He continued south, then turned on a dog leg to the right with
nothing in sight. With gas gauges moving toward half a tank, he turned
north. Soon smoke was spotted on the horizon--the destroyer Arashi
heading for the IJN fleet. McClusky followed and soon spotted the
carriers, north of their original course. As the Enterprise
SBDs prepared to make their dive on the targets, from the north-northeast came
the Yorktown SBDs led by LCDR Leslie. SBDs from the Enterprise
and from the Yorktown
struck the Japanese carriers almost simultaneously.
The Yorktown
air group had left an hour after the Enterprise planes had launched,
yet they came together on the Japanese carriers at the same time. The
mystery is how the Yorktown squadrons located the Japanese carriers on
this different course. It is known how the Enterprise planes
arrived there, but nothing reveals what lead the Yorktown planes to
the target. Evidently most of our squadrons observed radio silence until
they sighted the target. And the Japanese observed radio silence except
for some low energy line of sight communications. So their location could
not be detected.
There was some radio
communication from the leader of the Midway attack force as their planes
returned, but I don't think we monitored and reported this to the U.S.
squadrons that located the carriers. If so, did our squadron leaders
receive such a report? Was a PBY shadowing the Japanese carriers on this
new course, and did it radio the new location? There is no indication
that this happened, and no indication that Leslie heard such a report.
So the question
remains, how did the Yorktown air group set a course to this new
location? The answer will be a significant contribution to understanding
this incredible victory.
The second question
centers around Torpedo 8. It struck the Japanese carriers on their new
course, one that was a considerable departure from that reported by Howard
Ady. Torpedo 8 was the first carrier based group to strike the
Japanese. The land-based planes had struck earlier when the IJN carriers
were on the course reported by Howard Ady. How did LCDR John Waldron know
where the carriers would be on this new [course]? Waldron had broken away
from the Hornet air group on its flight to nowhere. And as best
as can be determined, he almost flew directly to the new location of the Kido
Butai, one that was drastically different from the original reported course.
Two important and
revealing answers will tell us how Max Leslie and John Waldron calculated where
the Japanese would be at their respective attack times. These answers are
important because they will make a significant contribution to understanding
why we won the Battle of Midway.
Does anybody have
any documentary evidence to answer these two key questions? If so, you
will make a substantial contribution to the history of the battle.
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Bill is the
founder of this Roundtable and its moderator during our first five years.
He and I had a side discussion on this topic (I think the answers to Bill's
questions are rather simple and can be found in the historical record),
but let's see what the rest of our members think. Why did Waldron and
Leslie seemingly fly unerringly toward the enemy fleet despite its
departure from its known course? Here's the first response.......
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8 December 2004
From: Mac Showers
macrain@att.net (BOM vet,
Station HYPO, Pearl Harbor)
Regarding the final
question [above], you simply have to remember and rely on the fact that,
through the fog of war, God was at Midway. Over sixty years later,
documentary evidence probably cannot be produced. But with
"God as my co-pilot," you've also got to remember that He is still a
very good navigator....just for what it's worth.
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"Pacific
War History Forum"
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2 December 2004
From: James Bowen
JamesNo1@bigpond.com
(Australia)
Some of the members
of BOMRT have indicated interests in the Pacific War that extend beyond our
focus on the Battle of Midway, and I would like to bring to their attention an
excellent history forum that includes a massive section for discussion of
Pacific War topics. This forum can be found at:
http://forum.axishistory.com/
Scroll down to the section headed
“World War 2 in the Pacific and Asia,” click on that title, and off you go to
pages of topics dealing with the Pacific War. To cite just a tiny sample,
there are discussions relating to the Nanking Massacre, Pearl Harbor, the
Doolittle and other early American carrier raids, the Battle of the Philippines,
the Japanese bombing of Australia, Guadalcanal, Coral Sea, Midway, Japanese
atrocities, the atomic bombing of Japan, and the list goes on and on. Best of
all, some of the contributors actually know a lot about the Pacific War.
I am presently engaged in a discussion as to the ranking of pivotal
battles of World War 2 and where Midway deserves to rank in the list. I
have placed it third after the Battle of Britain and the Battle of the
Atlantic. To make it clear that I am not an Anglophile zealot, I gave my
detailed reason for ranking the Battle of Britain first.
Despite the odd
title of this forum, I could detect no actual bias for or against either the
Allies or the Axis powers.
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"'Conspiracy:
FDR and Pearl Harbor'" (see Now
Hear This, issues 24, 25, 30; Phil Jacobsen, issue 4-31)
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5 December 2004
From: Mat Clark
mattclark@rcn.com
I thought the "good guys" were convincing and
were given more time than suggested by Phil. However, I don't think
the History Channel deserves any praise for presenting such garbage like
Stinnett's theory. When all was said and done, the conclusion seemed to
be that what happened at Pearl Harbor is still a mystery, and it
will probably never be resolved.
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“Japanese
Midget Subs at Pearl Harbor” (see Now Hear This, issue 4-31)
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5 December 2004
From: Mac Showers
macrain@att.net (BOM vet,
Station HYPO, Pearl Harbor)
I watched the War Stories
segment on the P.H. midget subs, and was also curious if the treatment
would be comparable to their BOM story. I don't think it was, but I do
have a personal bias on that point. I was quite surprised that
Ollie would do that story from Pearl and on board the "Mighty MO" (USS
Missouri) and not incorporate the historical wisdom of Daniel Martinez,
historian for the Arizona Memorial Foundation (National Park Service).
The issue on Japan suffering the
first casualties of WWII is of less importance, I think, than Dan Martinez'
statement at the time of the discovery of the midget sub sunk by Ward.
He proclaimed that the discovery proves that the first shot of WWII
against Japan was fired by the U.S. when the WARD sank the sub. The
sinking was self defense within our own territorial waters and, of course,
countermands the later (and continuing) claims that Admiral Kimmel did not have
his defensive forces adequately on alert.
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"New
Member: George Walsh"
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6 December 2004
From: George Walsh
gjwalco@msn.com
I am an 84 year-old
former dive bomber pilot flying off the Ticonderoga and Hancock.
As a civilian I had an advertising agency in New York for 40 years, and
registered with the SEC as an Investment Advisor for another 15 years.
Now I am an old war horse, working from my home in Darien, CT, where I serve on
the town's Monuments and Ceremonies Commission.
I'm looking
forward to hearing from you on our common interest....
George J. Walsh
LCDR, USNR-Ret
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"New
Member: Ryan Hurley"
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3 December 2004
From: Ryan Hurley
RHu3620917@aol.com
My name is Ryan Martin
Hurley I live in Houston Texas and am 25 years old. My grandfather Floyd
Martin Hurley he served aboard the USS Hammann as a fireman. I
noticed that he has a shipmate as a member of your forum. I am trying to
contact and crew members of the
Hammann. If you could help me in any way I would be very grateful--please
email me at RHu3620917@aol.com. Thank
you very much.
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"New
Member: 'AJ' Trinidad"
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9 December 2004
From: AJ Trinindad
flipgui312@hotmail.com
I was interested in
learning more about the Battle of Midway because I am doing a History Day
project for it. I was excited to find this website and learn that I could
contact some veterans from the battle.
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A hearty Welcome
Aboard to George, Ryan, and AJ. I've already placed Ryan in
contact with USS Hammann vet Elmer Jones, and AJ makes our
third student member involved in the current National History Day
contest. AJ, if you haven't already done so, check the resources on our
web site, especially the MIDWAY LIBRARY page. Then contact us again
when you have specific questions for our veterans and other experts.
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................................................. NOW HEAR THIS! ..................................................
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NEWS & INFO IN THIS ISSUE
-- COL William Lucius, USMC:
Final Sortie
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COL WILLIAM LUCIUS, USMC: FINAL SORTIE
With profound
regret, I announce the passing of COL William Lucius, USMC, Battle of
Midway Veteran and the senior member of our Roundtable. Bill, age
90, passed away during the evening of Wednesday, December 8th after a long
illness. He had spent time in a convalescent hospital
early this year, but was well enough to attend the 62nd BOM anniversary
dinner in San Francisco last June where he exhibited good cheer and seemed
to enjoy himself a great deal.
Bill was the MAG-22
quartermaster during the BOM. You can find his story on p. 98 & 104
in Incredible Victory. He had a 24-year career in the Corps,
serving in every rank from private to colonel. Click this URL for a photo
of Bill with 3 of our other vets at the 62nd anniversary event:
http://www.midway42.org/temp/bom62-vets1a.jpg
Bill's services will
be conducted on Saturday, 18 December, 1:00 PM at:
Lafferty & Smith
Colonial Chapel
4321 Sonoma Highway
Santa Rosa, CA
Important:
Bill's family has asked me to assist in collecting attendance info so that the
funeral director can adequately plan logistics. All Roundtable members
who intend to be there are asked to contact me (just reply to this message or
call 209-367-5819) and give me a count for yourself and anyone who will
accompany you. Thanks in advance--RR.
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