The Roundtable Forum
Official
newsletter of the
BATTLE OF MIDWAY ROUNDTABLE
To promote an
awareness and understanding of the great battle
and to
honor the men who fought and won it
8 AUGUST 2004
......................... Issue No. 2004-15 .........................
Our 7th Year
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AROUND
THE TABLE
MEMBERS' TOPICS IN THIS ISSUE
1. Doug Carter, BOM Vet:
Final Sortie
2. TBD Combat Range
3. The BOM on Command
Decisions, 30 July '04
4. Restored SBD at Midway
Airport, Chicago
=========================================
“Doug
Carter, BOM Vet: Final Sortie”
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 July 2004
From: Clay Fisher
cfisher3@san.rr.com (BOM
vet, VB-8 pilot, USS Hornet)
I ran into a
friend of William "Doug" Carter this week and found out Doug had died
April 7th from advanced lymphoma. He was buried in Arlington
National Cemetery and is survived by 5 of 6 children. His wife died
in 2002.
Doug was a dive
bomber pilot assigned to Bombing Squadron Eight, a veteran of the BOM and the
Santa Cruz battle. Doug, Roy Gee, and I were pilots assigned to the
initial 16 plane flight to attack the Shokaku on
26 October 1942. Doug and I flew in the VB-8's rear
4-plane diamond section. Doug had a hole shot in his propeller and
his gunner, "Slim" Moore, was shot in the leg. In spite of
a badly vibrating engine, Doug was able to fly about 150 miles and
land on the Enterprise.
Doug attended the most recent Hornet reunion in San Diego, and
that was the first and last time I met him since we walked out of our
squadron ready room on the Hornet to man our planes at Santa
Cruz.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clay and I discussed various photos of Carter and Moore, particularly
the one on page 137 of "A Glorious Page In Our History." The
upper left picture caption names two other men, but it's actually Carter (left)
and Moore (right). Compare that photo to this shot of the two at the
Hornet-Mustin reunion in 2003: http://www.midway42.org/temp/moore-carter.jpg
Clay then sent
me the following message on the subject of other photos found in "A
Glorious Page." --RR
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 August 2004
From: Clay Fisher
cfisher3@san.rr.com (BOM
vet, VB-8 pilot, USS Hornet)
In A Glorious
Page In Our History, page 137, the picture of B11 being moved on the Hornet's
flight deck has always made me curious as to the flight crew. This
plane would normally have been assigned to a wingman of the XO flying
B10, leader of the second flight division composed of three 3-plane
sections. Squadron records of the aircrew plane assignments for Midway
probably were destroyed. After the war started, Admiral King took half
the typewriters away from us to reduce paper work, so the flight
officers had to write out their flight schedules by hand!
Page 150:
the picture of LT Sam Adams and his gunner Joe Karrol was the first
picture I had ever seen of that flight crew. During the June 5th attack
on the Tanikaze, I was circling astern of her after recovering
from my dive and I watched an SBD diving that never pulled out of its
dive. It exploded close astern of the ship. Later, in our
ready room, I asked CDR Ring who the pilot was in the lost SBD and he sort
of cut me off, saying we had not lost a plane. The next day he
apologized and told me it was LT Sam Adams, a Yorktown pilot
flying off the Enterprise. LT Adams was the pilot of the
SBD search that had located the Hiryu the afternoon of June 4th.
Page 155:
Don Griswald, a VS-8 pilot, was lost the morning of June 6th
when VB-8 and VS-8 attacked the two Japanese cruisers. He never
rejoined the flight and I don't think anybody knew what actually happened to
him. Some of the VS-8 pilots said Don had told them before the
flight he thought he might get killed. There was always AA when you
attacked the ships but I don't remember worrying about the AA that
morning.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
* *
"TBD
Combat Range"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 July 2004 (via Military.com)
From: Alvin Kernan
alvin.kernan@worldnet.att.net
(BOM vet, AOM3/c, VT-6, USS Enterprise)
I wonder if anyone
on the BOMRT can help me with the following. I have, courtesy
of Steve Ewing, a pre-Midway mimeographed chart of the TBD-1's endurance
while carrying various loads with various throttle settings. Under the
"torpedo loaded" column, it states that the plane could carry
only 96 gallons of gas with the 2200 lb. load, as compared to 180
gallons for other purposes. At a speed of 100 miles an hour with a
torpedo, consumption is said to be 50 gals per hour. I was amazed by that info,
which meant that Torpedo 8 at Midway, launched at 155 miles distant from Kido
Butai, would not have had enough gas to attack and get back to the ship.
I checked with the
late Tom Cheek, who had been a TBD pilot before he went to fighters, and he
replied that the TBD was so underpowered that when you loaded it with over a
ton, the gas carried had to be reduced.
This is what John
Waldron’s citation for the Navy Cross says: “Grimly aware of the
hazardous consequences of flying without fighter protection and with
insufficient fuel to return to his carrier...” And George Gay says,
"[Waldron] certainly knew we were flying beyond our endurance, to get back
to our ship, but we might make it close to or even all the way to Midway
Island.” (Quoted in Shipmate, June-July 1966, p. 307.)
But others, notably
John Lundstrom, do not believe that the TBD when carrying a torpedo was on a
suicide mission. He points out that longer flights were made at the Coral
Sea, and that 4 of the VT-6 planes flew pretty close to the same course at
Midway as Torpedo 8 and got back aboard. Cheek said he had talked to all
the returning pilots, including the 2 who ditched near the Yorktown--after
flying a considerable shorter route than Torpedo 8--and that they had said they
ran on fumes for a long time.
Any help will be
greatly appreciated. If the 96 gals is right, then the TBDs were sent out
with no expectation that they would return from a 155 mile strike.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
* *
"The
B.O.M. on 'Command Decisions,' 30 July 2004" (see Now Hear This, issue 4-13 &
4-14)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 August 2004
From: John Gardner
jayvee@theunion.net (BOM
vet, 6th MarDefBtn, Midway)
The History
Channel should be ashamed for presenting what is the poorest of all
Battle of Midway depictions. When they infer the Marines were not
really understanding what was coming, that is pure ignorance on
their part. As a Midway Mud Marine, we were informed of a
possible major attack very early in May, 1942. Information was trickled
out to the troops during the next few weeks. When ADM Nimitz showed up,
we knew full well why he was there. I was fortunate at being
at my battle station on regular watch when the admiral was escorted
through our dugout shelter. I was called to attention, and
he looked me straight in the eye and asked, "how are you,
son?" I replied in two words. "Fine, sir."
I can assure all
concerned that the Marines were prepared and awaiting the Jap air
strike, starting well before daylight, 4 June 1942. Beginning around
0400, our aircraft started their takeoff and departure to a rendezvous
point at Kure Reef. The B-17s went first, since they had the
most fuel. All aircraft on Eastern Island continued to take off for
about 2 hours, and were all holding at Kure Reef, except for the squadron
of Brewster Buffalos that were in their revetments, pilots sitting
aboard, ready to start engines. It was sort of like magic--a well
planned stage show.
The last
aircraft departed Eastern
Island, and our radar detected many unidentified
aircraft at 90 miles and about 340 degrees. The Brewsters
immediately took off to meet the incoming Jap aircraft. They
approached at 12,000 feet and dove down and thru the Jap formations. And,
yes, they did shoot down a few enemy aircraft. But, the Zero
fighters quickly shot down most of the Brewsters within minutes. One Marine
pilot, William Brooks, told me this part of the intercept just two years
ago at our annual Sixth Def reunion. Bill Brooks is the last of the
Marine pilots still alive and resides in Nebraska. He landed his
Buffalo well shot up, wounded, and was lifted out of the aircraft by
the ground Marines. His was the last U.S. Brewster Buffalo to ever
fly in combat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 August 2004
From: Patrick Doyle
Pointluckpwd@aol.com
I too, was totally
disgusted with the History Channel's pathetic show on the BOM! I have
noticed for a long time that whenever the History Channel is responsible for
the production of a show, it is absolutely the worst history that is
presented. However, every now and then, they'll show an
outstanding production that they've acquired from say NOVA or FRONTLINE,
or HBO (i.e. Band of Brothers, etc.).
Is there any way
that we as a group can voice our complete displeasure with their latest
show? Let's circle the wagons and formally let them know how poor their
history is!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone is aware of an
effective means for passing constructive criticism on a show's content to
the History Channel, let me know and I'll send them an appropriate
letter. --RR
*
* *
"Restored
SBD at Midway Airport, Chicago" (see Marty
Krasnitz, issue 4-10; Now Hear This, issue 4-11)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 August 2004
From: Taras Lyssenko
TarasAtSea@aol.com
As of right now the
following BOM veterans are planning on attending the SBD dedication at Midway
Airport, Chicago (I am sure there will be more):
Vernon L Micheel
Ralph B. Hovind
Ivan L Swope
Clayton E Fisher
James Forbes
John F. Carey
Jesse "Doug" Rollow
Sumner H Whitten
Leon Williamson
Walter C. Grist
William Houser
I will
begin working on the travel arrangements soon. I want to tell you all,
just meeting and speaking with all of you has made this project
worthwhile. We will take pictures and make videotapes for those who
are not able to attend.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's good to see four of our BOM vet
members' names on the above list. Walt, if you can get that thing
running, maybe Clay or Jim can fly it out of there for us. --RR
NOW
HEAR THIS!
NEWS & INFO IN THIS
ISSUE
-- Book Review: And
I Was There, by Edwin Layton
-- Guadalcanal on
"War Stories" Sunday
===========================================
BOOK REVIEW: AND
I WAS THERE, BY EDWIN LAYTON
And
I Was There, by Admiral Nimitz' intelligence officer, Edwin Layton, has
been a recommended volume on our web site for a long time, but I just
finished reading it last week. And for me, the book was a rather stunning
revelation--no, several stunning revelations.
With
regard to Pearl Harbor, I knew that Admiral Kimmel and General
Short had been made scapegoats for the surprise attack, and I knew that
CDR Rochefort's genius at Hypo (Combat Intelligence Unit, Pearl Harbor)
was not appreciated in Washington. But I had no idea how much actual
blame for the disaster rightly belonged to a few incompetent, self-serving
members of the navy's top leadership in Washington. Admiral Layton's book
is a sobering report on "a war within a war, of admirals fighting
admirals. It is a tale of men in Washington vying for power and turf
while disregarding the national interest." (Quoted from the
book's jacket.)
Layton's
revelations are a damning indictment against those in Washington who
withheld critical intelligence from Kimmel and his staff--intelligence that
clearly pointed to an attack on Hawaii in early December (i.e., the
Japanese consulate in Honolulu receiving requests from Tokyo for the specific
location of ships in the harbor--never reported to Kimmel). And before
the Pearl Harbor revisionists seize on that as proof of their conspiracy
theories, it must be said that it was all due solely to
internal feuding over who would have responsibility for intercept
analysis--Rochefort or OP-20-G in Washington. As the book jacket says, it
was a silly turf struggle, and thousands needlessly died because of it.
But
Layton doesn't stop there. He details our intelligence victory
at Midway, but we learn that it was almost another Pearl Harbor. Again,
Washington didn't want anyone in Hawaii analyzing and predicting Japanese
intentions, despite the fact that the Midway attack
was launched almost to the minute that was predicted by Layton
and Rochefort, but nearly two weeks in advance of the date chosen by OP-20-G.
The book
goes on to relate the intelligence debacles associated with General MacArthur,
particularly his insistence upon invading the Philippines when Nimitz was
convinced it was unnecessary. MacArthur was the bombastic politician
while Nimitz was the quiet pragmatist, and FDR was swayed by the
politician. Again, many thousands of Americans needlessly died for the
sake of a senior officer's vanity.
And
I Was There is 596 pages of meticulous detail supporting the author's
basic premise that our communications intelligence victories in the
Pacific, as dramatic as they were, fell far short of what they could have
been. But that aside, it's also a thorough treatment of our most
significant CommInt breakthroughs, especially with regard to the BOM.
The book
was published in 1985, and it's readily available on Amazon and other
outlets. I found a used copy, in like-new condition, on Amazon for a
deep discount. --RR
*
* *
GUADALCANAL ON "WAR
STORIES" SUNDAY
Oliver
North's "War Stories" series on the Fox News Channel has scheduled
their
Guadalcanal
episode for today (Sunday, 8 August), at 8:00 PM EDT (5:00 PM
Pacific). I believe there is repeat at 1:00 AM EDT Monday. (Thanks
to Barrett Tillman for the tip.)
I haven't seen this
episode before, but the description on the FNC web site looks inviting.
In part, it says....
"On this compelling episode of War
Stories with Oliver North, you will go inside Operation Watchtower
as Admirals Chester Nimitz and Ernest King lock horns with
General Douglas MacArthur about strategy in the Pacific."
That dovetails nicely with Edwin
Layton's comments on MacArthur (see above), so I'll be watching this one with
interest. --RR
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